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I've been thinking... - 5/7/2010 2:32:54 PM
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Johnny_
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I've been thinking about this scenario. Which do you think is worse?
A. Telling a born again believer, a person who is truly saved, that he or she is hell bound. In other words, judging the person incorrectly.
OR
B. Telling a self-professing Christian, who is actually self-deceived, that he or she is heaven bound. In other words, giving the person a false hope of salvation.
In my opinion, both can be detrimental.
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RE: I've been thinking... - 5/7/2010 2:54:34 PM
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greatdivide46
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I agree both can be detrimental, but neither are not ours to do because we cannot see anyone's heart, only God can.
Amen!!
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greatdivide46
He said he had been deeply worried about having a general aesthetic and had been delighted to be offered the epidural in his spine. -- Jane Elliott, BBC News
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RE: I've been thinking... - 5/7/2010 5:27:05 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
I've been thinking about this scenario. Which do you think is worse?
A. Telling a born again believer, a person who is truly saved, that he or she is hell bound. In other words, judging the person incorrectly.
That's not judging. That's condemning. Something we are told NOT to do.
quote:
B. Telling a self-professing Christian, who is actually self-deceived, that he or she is heaven bound. In other words, giving the person a false hope of salvation.
You will know them by their fruits.
I think we see this a lot at funerals. Heck, every funeral I've been to has told me the person was in heaven (and in some, they apparently helped pray them in).
It doesn't seem a fair thing to do, although I understand that you don't want to tell people grieving that their mother is more than likely in hell, either.
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RE: I've been thinking... - 5/8/2010 12:54:18 AM
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Johnny_
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Ben that verse says "You will *know* them by their fruits." To know simply means to recognize. Unfortunately the verse doesn't say "you will declare they are saved."
< Message edited by Johnny_ -- 5/8/2010 4:13:05 AM >
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RE: I've been thinking... - 5/10/2010 11:27:00 AM
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drmark
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quote:
A. Telling a born again believer, a person who is truly saved, that he or she is hell bound. In other words, judging the person incorrectly. Why would a fellow Believer have any reason to doubt the salvation of another Christian?
quote:
B. Telling a self-professing Christian, who is actually self-deceived, that he or she is heaven bound. In other words, giving the person a false hope of salvation. Why would any true Believer want to give "false hope of salvation" to a lost sinner?
Your "scenarios" make no sense to me, Johnny!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: I've been thinking... - 5/11/2010 2:44:09 AM
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Raean
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
I've been thinking about this scenario. Which do you think is worse?
A. Telling a born again believer, a person who is truly saved, that he or she is hell bound. In other words, judging the person incorrectly.
OR
B. Telling a self-professing Christian, who is actually self-deceived, that he or she is heaven bound. In other words, giving the person a false hope of salvation.
In my opinion, both can be detrimental.
I'll play 
I would say answer B is worse, because you or anyone could tell me "A" and I wouldn't believe you or care, because I know where I stand with God and my relationship with Him.
If I were the person in "B", however, I would not want to be misled.
But in reality, we can't judge. Discern, but not judge.
Your definition in "B" does remind me of something though. Makes me think of every funeral I've ever attended, and every single one of those people is in heaven, according to the minister. If I knew the person and how they lived a sinful life, those words that they were now in heaven just made me even more comfortable in my sins (especially for those that only ever set foot in a church for funerals). Not saying they aren't in heaven, but then the minister probably shouldn't assure us they are (as much as we'd just like him to do that for momentary comfort).
Not that the minister should say "Bob was rotten, he's most likely in hell!" Oh my! Hahaha, I can't imagine. But that's a different topic
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RE: I've been thinking... - 5/11/2010 5:25:32 AM
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Johnny_
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Raean you brought up a good point. I didn't think category B could be worse until you gave us that great example. Thanks for the insight. I also agree with you and Ben about the funerals because I've seen that happen in many Hollywood movies. The only disagreement I have is about our rights to judge. I do think we are allowed to judge righteously.
< Message edited by Johnny_ -- 5/11/2010 1:53:44 PM >
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RE: I've been thinking... - 6/7/2010 10:56:34 AM
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deerhunter721
Posts: 49
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
I've been thinking about this scenario. Which do you think is worse?
A. Telling a born again believer, a person who is truly saved, that he or she is hell bound. In other words, judging the person incorrectly.
OR
B. Telling a self-professing Christian, who is actually self-deceived, that he or she is heaven bound. In other words, giving the person a false hope of salvation.
In my opinion, both can be detrimental.
I think they are both equally bad.
(A)- We surely don't need to judge a Christians' salvation if they sin or go into a period of sin. We ALL sin and fall short of the Glory of God. When christians make the wrong decisions, yes, they must be corrected and called to repent. But that absolutely doesnt mean that they arent already saved. We are ALL on that same exact ship.
......that being said..
(B)-Easy believism, and telling someone to "pray a prayer" or "make a decision for Christ" is a huge culprit to false conversion. Shallow theology and alter calls have led MANY to think, "well, Jesus loves all men and I prayed a prayer...so I must be saved".. or..." Well I believe Jesus died, and was resurrected, and that He is truly the son of God, so I must be saved"...or..."I went to the front of an isle". If the person in question shows no signs of progressive sanctification or (fruit), and continues to be of the world, then that might be a sign of false conversion, and Christians need to teach them and go to scripture to make sure of their election. On the other hand, It also wouldn't be safe to tell them they probably arent saved if we think they had a false conversion. It is better to feed them scripture, and help them. Encourage them to examine themselves, if they are truly convicted of their sins and of grieving the Holy Spirit, then they will repent. That is the sign of a true believer. If they dont, then pray for them, but don't tell them they are saved if there is no fruit. Because you will already know them by their fruit. If a pastor is seeing lots of this in their church, then they might want to reconsider how salvation is taught, Pray, drop their traditions, and go to scripture to see.
...Just remember a NEW Christian probably wont bear alot of "fruit" at first. So don't anyone jump to conclusions. LOL!!
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RE: I've been thinking... - 6/11/2010 4:02:48 AM
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Johnny_
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From: California
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Deerhunter you gave us some great examples. Definitely some food for thought.
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RE: I've been thinking... - 6/11/2010 4:26:14 PM
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AmericanJosiah
Posts: 280
Joined: 3/11/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
I've been thinking about this scenario. Which do you think is worse?
A. Telling a born again believer, a person who is truly saved, that he or she is hell bound. In other words, judging the person incorrectly.
OR
B. Telling a self-professing Christian, who is actually self-deceived, that he or she is heaven bound. In other words, giving the person a false hope of salvation.
In my opinion, both can be detrimental.
Maybe we shouldn't pretend to be able to look into a person's heart?
Historically, Christians have regarded each other on the basis of THEIR confession. One who says he believes is embraced as one who does, one who says he does not, is embraced as one who does not. Only that one knows what is in his heart.
That's not to say one might articulate doctrines differently; their doctrine may not be identical to another - but that doesn't mean they don't have faith in Christ. And it's not to say that one who says he's a Christian might be like St. Paul - chief of sinners; he/she may still have faith in Christ.
None of us has spiritual X-Ray vision to "see" into another's heart better than that person himself.
,
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RE: I've been thinking... - 6/12/2010 7:41:15 AM
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rcjames
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Giving false hope and non-existant security to a decieved non-believer, is much worse than causing a believer to do as Paul suggest;
(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: I've been thinking... - 6/12/2010 9:20:56 AM
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Johnny_
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I am inclined to agree with you RC. Raean probably gave us the best example in post #7.
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RE: I've been thinking... - 6/12/2010 9:57:01 AM
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rcjames
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If only someone would have challenged those poor folks that Christ speaks of in Matthew 7:20-23; maybe, just maybe, they would have truly made Christ Lord of their lives.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: I've been thinking... - 6/14/2010 2:08:09 PM
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Johnny_
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I'm not too sure about that RC. Try starting a new thread on Matthew 7:15-23. I bet you a million bucks everyone on Crosswalk will emphatically deny that verse applies to them. Not even the angels in heaven will be able to change their minds.
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RE: I've been thinking... - 6/28/2010 9:01:50 PM
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sen10tious
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Assuming in this hypothetical situation that you do know the status of someone's salvation,
I would say that A is worse for you because you are lying to one of God's most precious children,
and B is worse for the other person because you have messed with something that could affect their eternal life.
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