Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic tent
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Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic tent - 4/10/2010 1:20:36 PM
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gralan
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Testimony of a person who left an abusive church and sought fellowship and healing in a church within a denomination which is well known, Christ oriented, Bible-based fellowship of believers:
“When I first left, I didn’t find a lot of Christian people who were willing to be compassionate and nonjudgmental toward me. Many churches distance themselves from people like me, and I learned early that it was best to pretend as if I never went through anything like this so as to be treated normal. I think they acted that way mostly out of ignorance and fear. ” - informaiton from an apologetics website.
I can provide more information if requested of me privately.
Isn't it sad that a person who was victimized in one church, which seemed right in her own eyes when she got involved, felt isolated by a "sound" church's congregation because it really isn't focused upon being a healing center for the spiritually wounded? I've been able to find individuals who were helpful in my own situation as "walking wounded" but I've felt the chastisement of many others, including folks who wished me to know my own culpability in my situation in no uncertain terms.
There are many, many people who have left what some are convinced are great churches simply because of the callous nature of many folks who hold to a firm line regarding salvation, doctrine and holiness. This is not to fault the firm line, it is to say there are many who have not grown up spiritually in our solid churches. This firm line of standing upon Absolute Truth from God in Jesus Christ as testified to by the Holy Scripture is where I am, and where the churches I've been a member of stood. I'm not the outsider here, I'm "inside the loop" so to speak. I'm a private in the same Army. Do not shoot the messenger, please.
Christianity is not a spectator sport, so to speak. And the coaching comes most of the time from coach-players who are on the court with the rest of us. But if we are not humble people, earnestly seeking to be God's will in our every conscious moment, it is easy to get sidetracked and cause harm to others. We must learn to have the mind of Christ regarding those who are the walking wounded; the world is full of us who are in this position. God knows what it takes to break us, but we don't need our fellow believers to step on us afterwards. It does not help.
I think we need to remember that holding to the firm, established narrow way does not mean we cannot be gracious and generous in our availability to be Christ to those around us. We are indwelt by Him, and when we cooperate with Him, He uses us as a means to be physically present with others. IMO. Many have thought of the Church as a hospital for sinners, many have thought as the Church as an Army. I tend to view the Church in the role of the field hospital/medic tent on the ground near the action.
So, this is my OP. I'm hoping that we might find it useful to mull over this topic. Perhaps we can find ourselves being conformed into uniformity with the spiritual maturity that belongs to Christ Jesus our Lord.
--
your fellow suffering servant,
gralan
BTh student, TGSAT
Prov14.31 Micah6.8 Heb13.3 Matt5.48 Titus3.14 James1.27
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/10/2010 2:05:12 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
I tend to view the Church in the role of the field hospital/medic tent on the ground near the action.
This is a limited view of what the church should be. Yes, the medic tent as a shelter for the wounded and the hurting is a vital aspect of the church, but the church's objective should be to get those wounded people rehabilitated and trained up so they can become healthy, vital members equipped to carry on the work of the ministry.
In my experience in the ministry, there are some people who like to stay in the medic tent for their entire Christian walk and that should never be encouraged.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/10/2010 2:54:18 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2308
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
I tend to view the Church in the role of the field hospital/medic tent on the ground near the action.
This is a limited view of what the church should be. Yes, the medic tent as a shelter for the wounded and the hurting is a vital aspect of the church, but the church's objective should be to get those wounded people rehabilitated and trained up so they can become healthy, vital members equipped to carry on the work of the ministry.
In my experience in the ministry, there are some people who like to stay in the medic tent for their entire Christian walk and that should never be encouraged.
Kat, I'm sorry that you have run across malingerers in your ministry. 
Perhaps you are thinking of a real hospital, as I mentioned that some folks think of the Church as a hospital. There are even groupies of hospitals, and folks who like to eat at their cafeterias like a restaurant, etc.
A field hospital/medic tent cannot allow for folks to just hang around, there isn't room for one reason. Those who need a real hospital get shipped out after they go through triage. Perhaps our churches need sensitive people who have skills in spiritual triage to manage taking care of the spiritually wounded?
Not every single church has enough people with the needed skills and gifts to provide everything that a congregation might need in every circumstance. This is why I think that segregation of churches who are openly devoted to Jesus Christ is a thing that we need to get over with and how. There is no shame in allowing that some folks need the resources another congregation can provide or assist in. We are not in competition, but rather are members one of another; if we are in Christ.
BTW, I know of few people who consider the church a field medic tent, let alone as a hospital. If they think in military terms, they think about shooting the wounded and being offensive.
The most common misconception of the Church I for us today is to think of it as an all-you can eat buffet.
This is where they get to pick and chose what they want to put on their plate and eat, where someone else has to prepare everything, where they do not have to clean up, and everybody gets to pay the same price no matter what to enter the doors. The ultimate consumerism attitude, fill a need and flee. Unfortunately many do not realize that if you fly now, you do pay later. we are not free agents, we are bondslaves of God.
I was stating what I think the Biblical model of the local church should be. We are family, and we should bandage each other up and offer solace and assistance to get the family back functioning together as a unit. We are the Body of Christ, an Army of One. The One. The Only. The God became flesh and rose from the dead to be in Heaven as our Advocate One and Only. Isn't Jesus Awesome?
I'm sorry if I misunderstood your comments. Perhaps if you elaborated more on how we can get each other patched up and back into the game would be most helpful, based upon your experience.
Hmm. The Bible says that those who do not work do not eat. I know a lot of Christians who are at the trough, but so very few who are actually getting a job done. This needs to end, IMO.
_____________________________
suffering servant, gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 9:27:43 AM
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rcjames
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So where is the line drawn between patting someone on the head and saying oh you poor poor baby, I feel so sorry for you.
And confirming their salvation and showing them what Paul said;
(Php 3:13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Our Faith in Christ is not about wallowing in the misery of the past, but looking forward, rejoicing in who we are, and walking in the fruits of the Spirit.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 1:21:56 PM
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gralan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
So where is the line drawn between patting someone on the head and saying oh you poor poor baby, I feel so sorry for you.
And confirming their salvation and showing them what Paul said;
(Php 3:13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Our Faith in Christ is not about wallowing in the misery of the past, but looking forward, rejoicing in who we are, and walking in the fruits of the Spirit.
Thanks
RC
Hello RCJames,
I well remember your encouragement and quick wit.
Now, RC, as an experienced minister in the field you are aware of the following, so I'll direct my comments to those who have not dealt with spiritual victims in dire straits before.
Hello folks,
there are many ways in which people are wounded spiritually. There are those who have been wounded, as in my example who had been in an abusive church which was not about walking in the fruits of the Spirit and preaching the clear word of God.
These victims have been taught things that are not what God meant in the Scriptures which is the Word of God. Rather they've been subjected to psychological, emotional and sometimes even physical abuse and manipulation by the pastors and leaders in the church. These victims surrender their discernment, trusting that they are finally hearing the real truth. This is especially so if they listen to a preacher who does all the discerning for everyone to include the only way to understand certain passages through their own vocabulary.
These teachers will say they are the only ones (or are among the few) who know the real truth, it has been revealed to them and they've been gifted so as to make known those things which are true which other churches deny. Usually they think of other churches as being of the devil. Often they catch people up in a special teaching, whether it is how they are to be so separate from the world that they need to dress and groom as if they lived in the 1950s, read only a certain kind of Bible, forbidding use of modern gadgetry, and sometimes explaining that none of this special teaching can be discerned by those outside the true faith.
Do not tell others is a strong message most of these abusive churches enforce, because it would be throwing pearls before swine. Special terms are used as keys, such as unique meanings for Bread, Life, Holiness, mystery, and such. Vocabulary that has been established in the Christian Community suddenly gets new definitions, so that when you hear what is being said it is hard to catch the boldness of the twisting of Scripture. The King James is a favorite version of the Bible because most people find the language a little daunting, especially if they are among those who hated school or reading. Some abusive churches though use NIV or translations that most Christians are unaware of.
Usually these teachers will accuse most who call themselves Christians as being deceivers, weak-minded or those who veil the truth with human wisdom. Most of the time these victims got attached to abusive churches and teachers because of prejudices and biases and shared worldview on politics, etc. The Evil One knows that the easiest way to make poison swallowable is to mix it with something else that is sweet or preferred food of the victim.
Many manipulative sales techniques are used, including bait and switch, etc. A popular one is the method of getting the reluctant buyer of your goods to be in the habit of saying "Yes". After a series of statements which elicit this response, you begin slipping in statements that will eventually culminate in the false teaching. Attacks upon other people are a good way of stirring up emotions. All of these cultic methods and more are ways people become victimized in Churches bearing the Name of Jesus Christ. This is not how God operates, nor is it how the Holy Spirit reveals truth to us, nor is it how Jesus lived.
As an example, the abusive manipulating pastor or preacher might begin talking about all the sins that grieve God and move to Jesus coming back to destroy this sin-stained world and then combining that with Peter's admonishment to "hasten the day" you have folks ready to go out and commit a horrendous crime of plotting to kill a policeman and then kill a bunch more at the funeral all in the hopes of bringing the end times persecutions upon the Church so that Jesus comes back.
Wow. I didn't even explain that in as slick a way as can be packaged by the false and abusive pastors and teachers out in the world.
Healing is done in a variety of ways, but always should be in the context of the local church with real people exercising their spiritual gifts.
Healing comes mainly from wise Christians walking along side the person encouraging them with the truth of God and allowing the Holy Spirit to do the healing that is necessary.
Complete healing involves being able to trust what someone teaches about anything. It involves experiencing the forgiveness of God for not being obedient, and recognizing how much the victim surrendered to falsehood rather than for the glory of God. Victims often have hurt people while they were deluded, and so reconciliation has to be a focus. There are many things these folks need, but what they do not need is sarcasm, quick judgmentalism, worldly advice like "just stand up and take it like a man" or "Pull yourself together". I'm reminded of Patton attacking a soldier in a medic tent. What a fine display of leadership that was, NOT.
We are not to emulate the world. Living our lives condemning others, judging by bias and guesswork, twisting Biblical truth and taking things out of context to use them as a pretext for damaging other people are all signs of worldly ways of manipulating people to gain money, power, prestige, etc. This is how many approach politics, manipulate the voter and then do what you want once in office. Well, that is not how we should allow things to be in our churches, and failing that, the Body needs to utilize the healing mechanisms God has provided through spiritual gifts and wonderful human traits which are renewed by the Holy Spirit to be ways in which God heals us to health and then maintains that health.
The battle is going on, but it should not be happening in our churches. The battle is in the world. We go out into the world as God's emissaries, bringing the Full Gospel of God and our own selves being living sacrifices, to walk in a manner pleasing to God because God caused us to will to do and to do according to God's own purpose and pleasure.
There are those who have the gifts of mercy, of helps, etc., who need to be utilized in our churches as part of the response team to meet the needs of victims. Especially those victims of folks who claimed they were doing the will of God.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 3:35:22 PM
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SuspenseWriter
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But sadly, Brother Gralan, there are some Christians too wounded to even make it into the tent. And the worst part is, as you said, these wounds have been suffered at the hands of their supposed brothers and sisters in Christ.
For proof text, just check out the "Church" subhead here on CW. To be sure, some good information is found there, but the majority of the posters are self-styled heresy hunters who love nothing more than leaving a Christian hurt and bleeding in the dust, as the hunter walks away smiling in victory, blowing smoke from their gun barrel.
I'm not a dewey-eyed newbie to the faith. My wife and I have been saved and Spirit-filled for nearly forty years, but I have never seen this level of hate and self-righteousness from one group of believers directed toward another. And then some church leaders wonder why it is some of their flock are throwing up their hands in despair and going back to their worldly friends? This is why: with the world you expect back-stabbing and double-dealing, and are prepared for it. But when it comes from one's brothers and sisters in the faith, the attack is much more devastating.
What's the answer to the problem? I don't know. All I know is I love Jesus with my whole being, but these days I tend to stay as far away from most Christians as I possibly can.
_____________________________
John Robinson
writer
Until the Last Dog Dies, When Skylarks Fall, To Skin a Cat, and Heading Home. Coming: The Radiance (August 2011), and Relentless (August 2012)
http://www.johnrobinsonbooks.com
http://www.johnrobinsonbooks.com/blo
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 4:22:00 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2308
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
But sadly, Brother Gralan, there are some Christians too wounded to even make it into the tent. And the worst part is, as you said, these wounds have been suffered at the hands of their supposed brothers and sisters in Christ.
For proof text, just check out the "Church" subhead here on CW. To be sure, some good information is found there, but the majority of the posters are self-styled heresy hunters who love nothing more than leaving a Christian hurt and bleeding in the dust, as the hunter walks away smiling in victory, blowing smoke from their gun barrel.
I'm not a dewey-eyed newbie to the faith. My wife and I have been saved and Spirit-filled for nearly forty years, but I have never seen this level of hate and self-righteousness from one group of believers directed toward another. And then some church leaders wonder why it is some of their flock are throwing up their hands in despair and going back to their worldly friends? This is why: with the world you expect back-stabbing and double-dealing, and are prepared for it. But when it comes from one's brothers and sisters in the faith, the attack is much more devastating.
What's the answer to the problem? I don't know. All I know is I love Jesus with my whole being, but these days I tend to stay as far away from most Christians as I possibly can.
John,
There are communities were this is not the case, or at least most of the time it isn't. Even the churches in the first century had this problem, which is how we ended up with God's direct answer to these problems in the epistles of the Apostles.
I think sometimes we set the level of what are acceptable "Christian" churches, even if the only thing is we just don't like the style of worship or singing. This is sad, because in the current climate, we need to gather around folks who are devoted to Jesus.
You idea of the seriously wounded not even making it to the tent is a good extension of the idea. On the battlefield, that is done by fellow soldiers keeping track of each other, watching each others back, and leaving no one behind. These are concepts that unbelievers understand, so why is it so hard for believers to do so?
We cannot meet people in their need if we are not being authentic with people we know and regularly meeting with folks who are pursuing God's will. As we lift up prayer requests, is there not enough information given to know some of what needs to be done in His Name? I think you would agree with anything I've said, and I do not mean to sound like I'm emoting here.
Thank you John for noting that many self-proclaimed Christians really have some image problems to work on. We all need to be conformed into the image of Christ. It is not of our doing. We are conformed as the Holy Spirit dwells in us and does the will of God in and through us.
I think there are many who have done everything churches have asked of them, but who do not understand that "Making Jesus Lord of your Life" is not a Biblical concept let alone a teaching. People need to meet Jesus. Then they need to listen to Jesus. Then they need to submit to or walk away from Jesus. My wife and I have ended up in a missionary role in many of the churches we attended and joined. It's not like it sounds, there were believers functioning properly in those churches, but often it was a minority. Some of this is because of folks going to larger churches were they get better programs and such. Abandon the local church to meet with strangers. No wonder we do not know our neighbors, or fellow believers who live in our communities. We have removed ourselves from knowing them and interacting with them.
IMO. Please feel free to respond, which is why I started this thread. I think we need to talk about it and mull on it.
BTW, how's the book coming along?
Peace to all who love God and submit to Jesus Christ and are indwelt by God the Holy Spirit.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 4:43:28 PM
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SuspenseWriter
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Gralan, you make excellent sense as always, my brother. Thanks for asking about the book. The cover for Heading Home is done (the graphics people flat nailed the idea), I'm on copy edits, and I've already gotten some very nice endorsements and blurbs, some of which will show up in the back cover copy. It'll be on store shelves nationwide in August, and for those who are curious, the first two chapters can be read for free on my website (address in my sig). Once there, click "works", and then Heading Home (the first chapters of my other novels are also there).
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress. 
_____________________________
John Robinson
writer
Until the Last Dog Dies, When Skylarks Fall, To Skin a Cat, and Heading Home. Coming: The Radiance (August 2011), and Relentless (August 2012)
http://www.johnrobinsonbooks.com
http://www.johnrobinsonbooks.com/blo
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 8:03:07 PM
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rcjames
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How long does it take God to heal a seriously wounded person who is willing, that has been badly treated by some church?
How long does it take God to bring someone who is willing through the new birth and make them that new Creation where old things have all passed away and behold all things are new?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 8:24:25 PM
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theprincessbuttercup
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I don't know how long it takes. How long does it take someone who was severely abused by a family member or friend while growing up to be completely and utterly unaffected by those experiences? Do we help them to move forward while comforting their pain, or do we say, "Well, if you really believe in Jesus, you ought to be over this by now"?
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 9:06:21 PM
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Grace71
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I attended a church which did nothing but give platitudes and pats on the head. It hurt me even more. Just because we become christians doesn't mean we don't still have our own issues to deal with. These things don't magically disappear overnight. Many have behaviors which are the result of old hurts. For someone to say we are or should be over it as soon as we accept Jesus doesn't really understand these issues, IMO. As Princess said, a person who was abused by their parents for 15 yrs doesn't just 'get over it'. I believe the problem is many churches don't know how to deal with it. So their response is 'just have faith, just pray more, etc.' I don't remember God telling David, when he often cried out in his hurts and distresses to just 'get over it'.
_____________________________
Leaving today, August 6th, for 2 months for work, will be home at the end of September. Please keep me in your prayers for safe travel and successful work.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 11:28:05 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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I think the idea of Church being a hospital came from Mark 2:17:
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.--Mark 2:17
Because of that scripture, many have thought of the church as a hospital; including various other contrivences and alterations of that concept. But a closer look reveals something of the transformitory process of Christs power from sick to well--or more aptly from sinner to saint.
One who is well no longer needs a physician, therefore He came for the sick. The sick is therefore the lost/sinner. The pharaisees and various of their ilk THOUGHT they were whole, in their own estimation. Jesus Christ knew different. His response is therefore specific and at the same time ironic. It harkens back to the parable Jesus made of the two men at the temple in Luke 18:13:
And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 “The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14 “I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.” --Luke 18:9-13.
Basically, Jesus is saying that those who are HUMBLE enough to see their sin and acknowledge it and ask for His Mercy shall recieve it. The Tax collector is just as much a sinner as the Pharisee in this parable? Yes. The only difference is that one acknowledges it and the other denys it. One understands the concept that no one is righteous as is expounded on in Romans 3:10 (Romans 3:1-20).
However, upon conversion Christians go from being the sick to the whole. Even though we are growing into a more perfect image of our Creator as sons, we are now made righteous through His imputed righteousness and work on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:17):
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. --2 Corinthians 5:17
Again we are exhorted with words of wisdom concerning our conversion and spiritual change in Collosians 2:10;
and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;--Collosians 2:10
That word complete in Collosians 2:10 means made full or complete, also to fill up, cram, satisfy, fill up a hole, etc. etc. For the true believer, he or she is then not incomplete, but complete much like the birth of a newborn. When one looks at a baby, one does not think the baby is incomplete. The baby is not sick because it's not 6'2 and 179lbs and capable. Instead, we think that the baby must grow to his full stature. This is the same concept that is applied to the new believer. We are now considered sons of God; adopted into His family as there are many references in the bible regarding this--including the term Jesus Christ used as in being born again.
Therefore, the purpose of the Church is not to nurse people BACK to health, as that has been done in the conversion process--the sick become well or the sinner becomes saint. The goal then of the church is to GROW UP believers, supplying nutrition to every body. In fact, any who have kids, know about kids, or just had a brief encounter, will know the children need a lot of nutrition, healthy lifestyle, and love and care to grow into healthy well adjusted adults. They need correction and praise, they need ample sleep, they need training to be useful in their societies, and functioning adults. The same appies for the believer. When a person becomes a believer, he or she is no longer sick. They are just immature.
Paul's references of suffering, come not from one's moral actions or the brokenness of one's spirit or hurt; rather, in the troubles that assail him and his fellowservants in the service of Christ. Therefore, or suffering comes in this earthly life as tools to make our spiritual baby grow to a spiritual man.
Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:11:When I was a child I spake as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child but when I became a man I put away childish things --1 Corinthians 13:11.
Therefore, our goal as believers is to come to maturity in the faith, capable enduring hardship as a good soldier, not being entangled in the affairs of life and leading and discipling others as our own life is poured out as a drink offering to Christ.
God bless!
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/11/2010 11:41:21 PM
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Joseph3
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Fellow Christians,
Don't be too critical of your brothers nor expect them to fill your emptiness. Only One can judge them and only One can give you what you search for. If Christ is in your heart you can endure anything the world can throw at you. When among men remember that you are "among men."
Joe
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 9:02:02 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theprincessbuttercup
I don't know how long it takes. How long does it take someone who was severely abused by a family member or friend while growing up to be completely and utterly unaffected by those experiences?
Well I can answer for my wife who was sexually abused (raped) by her grandfater and stepdad from the time she was around 5 until whe reached puberty.
When she was saved, her whole life changed, she understood that she had been forgiven and must forgive; so she forgave all those that had had a part in the travesty of her lile.
That whole process took less than a week.
She has been a most joyful servant of God for for nearly half a century. No wallowing in pity, just a desire to help other who were abused in anyway including by "Controlling and Abusive Churches".
Folks who have been hurt need to be saved, and to forgive those who hurt them. They do not need pity; they need Godly counsel and direction.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 9:58:05 AM
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Grace71
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I am in a christian recovery group, and we don't wallow in pity, we use the word of God to help us learn grow and heal and become what God wants us to be. Just because a person still has things God is working on in their lives, does not mean they are not saved. I find your comments offensive to those who have been abused in any way shape or form. Sorry RC but it's not as cut and dry as you think. Just because God did that for your wife, doesn't mean He will heal everyone in the same way.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 12:54:24 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7672
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Grace71
I am in a christian recovery group, and we don't wallow in pity, we use the word of God to help us learn grow and heal and become what God wants us to be. Just because a person still has things God is working on in their lives, does not mean they are not saved. I find your comments offensive to those who have been abused in any way shape or form. Sorry RC but it's not as cut and dry as you think. Just because God did that for your wife, doesn't mean He will heal everyone in the same way.
Here is how simple it is;
(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
and
(Php 3:13,14) My brothers, I do not count myself to have taken possession, but one thing I do, forgetting the things behind and reaching forward to the things before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
And oh yea the other thing that one must do to be "Restored";
(Mat 18:35) So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also to you, unless each one of you from your hearts forgive his brother their trespasses.
And what will happen if one does not forgive?
(Mat 18:34) And his lord was angry, and delivered him to the tormentors until he should pay all that was due to him.
If Christians are being tormented; then they need to take care of unforgiveness.
I am quite familiar with folks who have been 'Devistated, crushed, hurt, and otherwise maligned by evil Churches", as I have had literally humdreds come to my Chruches is such a state. And a couple of weeks later it is as though all that evil and hurt and pain never happened; for those who were not samed (the vast majority of them thought they were, but were not) got saved. And the others dealt with unforgiveness and walla; love, joy, and peace in the Holy Ghost.
Thanks
RC
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 1:34:59 PM
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Grace71
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So you believe as soon as you forgive someone the hurt just goes away?
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 1:41:35 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7672
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Grace71
So you believe as soon as you forgive someone the hurt just goes away?
If the person is a Christian, then being obedient to God is a mandate; and yes it brings great rewards.
Remember;
(2Co 5:17) So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
That is God saying that, I am just repeating it.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 1:42:14 PM
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SecretGarden
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: theprincessbuttercup
I don't know how long it takes. How long does it take someone who was severely abused by a family member or friend while growing up to be completely and utterly unaffected by those experiences?
Well I can answer for my wife who was sexually abused (raped) by her grandfater and stepdad from the time she was around 5 until whe reached puberty.
When she was saved, her whole life changed, she understood that she had been forgiven and must forgive; so she forgave all those that had had a part in the travesty of her lile.
That whole process took less than a week.
She has been a most joyful servant of God for for nearly half a century. No wallowing in pity, just a desire to help other who were abused in anyway including by "Controlling and Abusive Churches".
Folks who have been hurt need to be saved, and to forgive those who hurt them. They do not need pity; they need Godly counsel and direction.
Thanks
RC
That's wonderful for your wife, but it's naive to expect every single person to heal/forgive in the same time frame. That's like expecting one antibiotic to treat every disease out there.
We are individuals, and thank God, He knows this and meets us where each of us are, currently. Just because someone doesn't heal from their trauma in a week like your wife did - doesn't mean there's something wrong with their faith. It just means that Jesus is healing them at a different pace.
I'm sorta shocked that you aren't bothered you've caused more hurt to abuse survivors with your "get up and get over it" stuff.
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Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark.... professionals built the Titanic.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 1:43:50 PM
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SecretGarden
Posts: 119
Joined: 2/11/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Grace71
So you believe as soon as you forgive someone the hurt just goes away?
If the person is a Christian, then being obedient to God is a mandate; and yes it brings great rewards.
Remember;
Being obedient brings rewards, yes. But, forgiving someone for hurting you deeply is a process... just because you do it, doesn't mean you feel it.
I would think that since your wife was an abuse survivor, you'd be a little more gentle with people who are wounded.
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Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark.... professionals built the Titanic.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 1:48:59 PM
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SecretGarden
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
Testimony of a person who left an abusive church and sought fellowship and healing in a church within a denomination which is well known, Christ oriented, Bible-based fellowship of believers:
“When I first left, I didn’t find a lot of Christian people who were willing to be compassionate and nonjudgmental toward me. Many churches distance themselves from people like me, and I learned early that it was best to pretend as if I never went through anything like this so as to be treated normal. I think they acted that way mostly out of ignorance and fear. ” - informaiton from an apologetics website.
I can provide more information if requested of me privately.
Isn't it sad that a person who was victimized in one church, which seemed right in her own eyes when she got involved, felt isolated by a "sound" church's congregation because it really isn't focused upon being a healing center for the spiritually wounded? I've been able to find individuals who were helpful in my own situation as "walking wounded" but I've felt the chastisement of many others, including folks who wished me to know my own culpability in my situation in no uncertain terms.
There are many, many people who have left what some are convinced are great churches simply because of the callous nature of many folks who hold to a firm line regarding salvation, doctrine and holiness. This is not to fault the firm line, it is to say there are many who have not grown up spiritually in our solid churches. This firm line of standing upon Absolute Truth from God in Jesus Christ as testified to by the Holy Scripture is where I am, and where the churches I've been a member of stood. I'm not the outsider here, I'm "inside the loop" so to speak. I'm a private in the same Army. Do not shoot the messenger, please.
Christianity is not a spectator sport, so to speak. And the coaching comes most of the time from coach-players who are on the court with the rest of us. But if we are not humble people, earnestly seeking to be God's will in our every conscious moment, it is easy to get sidetracked and cause harm to others. We must learn to have the mind of Christ regarding those who are the walking wounded; the world is full of us who are in this position. God knows what it takes to break us, but we don't need our fellow believers to step on us afterwards. It does not help.
I think we need to remember that holding to the firm, established narrow way does not mean we cannot be gracious and generous in our availability to be Christ to those around us. We are indwelt by Him, and when we cooperate with Him, He uses us as a means to be physically present with others. IMO. Many have thought of the Church as a hospital for sinners, many have thought as the Church as an Army. I tend to view the Church in the role of the field hospital/medic tent on the ground near the action.
So, this is my OP. I'm hoping that we might find it useful to mull over this topic. Perhaps we can find ourselves being conformed into uniformity with the spiritual maturity that belongs to Christ Jesus our Lord.
--
your fellow suffering servant,
gralan
BTh student, TGSAT
Prov14.31 Micah6.8 Heb13.3 Matt5.48 Titus3.14 James1.27
Have you read Dave Burchett's book "When Bad Christians Happen to Good People"? I highly recommend it. If you want, check out his blog on this site sometime.....
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Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark.... professionals built the Titanic.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 1:52:10 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7672
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SecretGarden
That's wonderful for your wife, but it's naive to expect every single person to heal/forgive in the same time frame. That's like expecting one antibiotic to treat every disease out there.
We are individuals, and thank God, He knows this and meets us where each of us are, currently. Just because someone doesn't heal from their trauma in a week like your wife did - doesn't mean there's something wrong with their faith. It just means that Jesus is healing them at a different pace.
I'm sorta shocked that you aren't bothered you've caused more hurt to abuse survivors with your "get up and get over it" stuff.
Well I for one would not compare God with an antibiotic.
God is perfect, God's plan for man is perfect and complete.
If one is a Christian, and one is obedient to Christ (which they will be if they are a Christian Luke 6:46, John 14:15) and that person forgives all from their heart as God has forgiven us, and instrusts us to do: then what will that person be walking in? Sorrow, pity, sadness, arger, apathy, etc. or will that person be walking in the fruts of the Spirit which are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, and self-control.
I see no room for there for self flaggelation or self-sorrow, but love and peace and a desire to help others find what they themselves have founjd.
Of course the first step is this is accepting Christ as one's Lord and Saviour.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 2:05:52 PM
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Grace71
Posts: 488
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SecretGarden
That's wonderful for your wife, but it's naive to expect every single person to heal/forgive in the same time frame. That's like expecting one antibiotic to treat every disease out there.
We are individuals, and thank God, He knows this and meets us where each of us are, currently. Just because someone doesn't heal from their trauma in a week like your wife did - doesn't mean there's something wrong with their faith. It just means that Jesus is healing them at a different pace.
I'm sorta shocked that you aren't bothered you've caused more hurt to abuse survivors with your "get up and get over it" stuff.
Well I for one would not compare God with an antibiotic.
God is perfect, God's plan for man is perfect and complete.
If one is a Christian, and one is obedient to Christ (which they will be if they are a Christian Luke 6:46, John 14:15) and that person forgives all from their heart as God has forgiven us, and instrusts us to do: then what will that person be walking in? Sorrow, pity, sadness, arger, apathy, etc. or will that person be walking in the fruts of the Spirit which are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, and self-control.
I see no room for there for self flaggelation or self-sorrow, but love and peace and a desire to help others find what they themselves have founjd.
Of course the first step is this is accepting Christ as one's Lord and Saviour.
Thanks
RC
You keep saying this, and maybe I am interpreting it wrong, but do you think if one still has hurts and pain from the past, they are not saved? Cause it sure seems that is what you are implying. If one of the women in your church came to you and said she had been raped or abused by her husband and is hurting, would you tell her to just get over it? Forgive, yes, but wounds don't heal overnight.
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Leaving today, August 6th, for 2 months for work, will be home at the end of September. Please keep me in your prayers for safe travel and successful work.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 2:07:38 PM
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SecretGarden
Posts: 119
Joined: 2/11/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SecretGarden
That's wonderful for your wife, but it's naive to expect every single person to heal/forgive in the same time frame. That's like expecting one antibiotic to treat every disease out there.
We are individuals, and thank God, He knows this and meets us where each of us are, currently. Just because someone doesn't heal from their trauma in a week like your wife did - doesn't mean there's something wrong with their faith. It just means that Jesus is healing them at a different pace.
I'm sorta shocked that you aren't bothered you've caused more hurt to abuse survivors with your "get up and get over it" stuff.
Well I for one would not compare God with an antibiotic.
God is perfect, God's plan for man is perfect and complete.
If one is a Christian, and one is obedient to Christ (which they will be if they are a Christian Luke 6:46, John 14:15) and that person forgives all from their heart as God has forgiven us, and instrusts us to do: then what will that person be walking in? Sorrow, pity, sadness, arger, apathy, etc. or will that person be walking in the fruts of the Spirit which are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, and self-control.
I see no room for there for self flaggelation or self-sorrow, but love and peace and a desire to help others find what they themselves have founjd.
Of course the first step is this is accepting Christ as one's Lord and Saviour.
Thanks
RC
I'm not comparing God to an antibiotic. If you'll recall, the DOCTOR decides on the treatment. The antibiotic is only the method of treatment the DOCTOR prescribes.
I HAVE accepted Christ. So has Grace. You seem to be saying that if people aren't healed of emotional scars in YOUR timeframe, then there's something wrong with their faith.
I have abuse in my background, also. Between God and I, it took me some years to completely forgive my abuser. I didn't "wallow" in self-pity, as you suggest. I was actively working through some painful issues.
Those people who are working hard to overcome abuse trauma, or addictions are HINDERED in their efforts when people like you come along and tell them they're doing something wrong because they aren't instantaneously "healed" of every single thing automatically.
Actually, that view sounds like an impatient child's view. "I want it all NOW", kind of thing. Even Paul spoke of salvation and healing as a work-in-progress, not some vending-machine toy God spits out when you put in the right combination of prayers.
You need to recognize that you aren't the end-all-be-all of how healing takes place. God heals whom He will, at the pace He chooses. It is different for everyone.
Some care on your part not to run roughshod over those who are struggling would not only be wise, it would be appreciated.
ETA: And by the way, a couple of those Fruits of the Spirit you're so fond of quoting are KINDNESS and GENTLENESS.
_____________________________
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark.... professionals built the Titanic.
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RE: Walking wounded and the Christian battlefield medic... - 4/12/2010 3:45:16 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 7672
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Grace71
You keep saying this, and maybe I am interpreting it wrong, but do you think if one still has hurts and pain from the past, they are not saved? Cause it sure seems that is what you are implying. .
The vast majority of Churches who are into controlling and spiritual abuse do not teach much reality about the saving Grace of God and the New Birth, it is always a good Idea to be sure the person is truly saved, not just says they are saved, but truly saved. If a Church, the leadership, and the teaching is so far off base as to be abusive to its congregants; it would be difficult to find proper teaching on the Grace of God, and salvation in such a place. Most places such as that are very Patriarchial, controlling, and legalistic in their teachings.
Trying to teach the healing grace of God to a non-believer is useless, and the person might as well go to a secular counsler of some sort. If they are saved, or get that way; then with them having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the mode of care becomes quite different.
quote:
Forgive, yes, but wounds don't heal overnight
Maybe yes, and maybe no; it would depend on the faith of the counsler and the faith of the one being counsled. I encourage you to read through they Gospels and see how many long term healings (physical or emotional) took place, and whether attitudes were quickly changed or drug out for years.
quote:
If one of the women in your church came to you and said she had been raped or abused by her husband and is hurting, would you tell her to just get over it?
Now you've changed the subject to spousal abuse, so here is my answer.
If a woman from my Church came to me she would be a Christian or she would not be part of my Chruch. She also would already be familiar with the Scriptural instructions about forgiveness and trusting in Christ. And her and her husband would have came to the leadership long before any abuse took place.
If her husband had abused her, I would have him in the office first, then drag him to the county jail. I would have the wife press charges against him, and when he got out of jail, he would either repent, apologize to the wife in front of the congregation, and apologize to the congregation; and never abuse her again or he would no longer be a member of the Church..
I have been a Minister for over 46 years, nearly 47, and as of yet have never had a case of spousal abuse in my congregations. Family problems are dealt with well before they would devolve into such demonic activities. And having only sincere believing Christians as part of our fellowship helps in this area also as all the folks try to live a good Godly Sanctified life, and reach out to others when things start to not go as they should.
It really ain't rocket science, Church is for Christians, and true Christians walk in love, Sanctification, and Holiness.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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